McCain: We Don't Hate You

Senator McCain's 69th brithday

We just call them how we see them.

OK. I will admit it. The media is in the tank for Obama. But it is more than the media; the country is in the tank for Obama. We love to watch him. We want to know what he is going to do next. We want to see him speak. Let's admit it now: even if you could never vote for Senator Obama, you still find him fascinating.

On the other hand, there is John McCain. Well, my friends....it seems the most interesting thing about him is his wife. Running a close second is how he was tortured and imprisoned.

Here is a man who has served his country for decades in the military and the legislature. We may not agree with his personality or philosophies, but if we are honest with ourselves, this is about as good as it gets. Then we have to face the lime green monster.

That will make you wince. That's not stagecraft you can believe in.

This phase of the election cycle is becoming eerily reminiscent of the end of the primaries. Hillary Clinton, an effective politician and a mainstay of the Democratic Party, began to look worse and worse. I am sure that more than one person winced when they watched her shake her fist and cry "shame on you Barack Obama," all the while being mimicked left to right and back again by her campaign lackey. Throw in the kitchen sink and the petulant refusal to concede the contest, and it becomes a matter of hoping she retires before embarrassing herself further.

Now it is Obama-McCain, and the gaffes keep coming.

We have the gorilla rape joke. We heard about a derogatory word used towards his wife. We heard about his unapologetic use of a racial slur. We have watched him flip-flop on his positions so much that it is honestly difficult to tell if he actually would be a Bush third term. We do know he wants to make Bush's tax cuts permanent and also throw in a gas tax holiday. Unfortunately, even without the tax holiday, it looks like the highway fund will be coming up short next year.

Let's not even talk about his age. Or his budget plan, or his extensive connections to lobbyists, a subject on which he derided Senator Obama.

Americans would rather not see our representatives looking their worse. We want our politicians to reflect all that is great about people, and about our country. Deep down, whoever the other guy is, we want them to look their best. Sadly, not every horseman can ride full gallop after a fox. Not every politician can go overseas and sink a three-pointer on a strange court in front of a strange crowd. Few can.

No Senator McCain, we don't hate you. It's just that there is someone who is younger, faster, stronger, and better educated; someone who is speaking our language. We believe there is nothing wrong with paying taxes to support our great nation. We believe there is nothing wrong with the government putting our health and education first. We believe there is nothing wrong with those who have more, giving more. We believe that talk and debate and negotiation are good. We don't think it is right that we can allow our bullets to rip through flesh, and not allow our words to rip through bureaucracy.

Yes, we can.

{"contentId":"1687293","authorDomain":"mentalshift"}

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Public Discussion (33)

{"commentId":2264813,"authorDomain":"mentalshift"}

* "We" being likely Obama voters.

{"commentId":2264813,"threadId":"318522","contentId":"1687293","authorDomain":"mentalshift"}

6 votes

#1 - Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:08 PM EDT

{"commentId":2264946,"authorDomain":"vikibabbles"}

No Senator McCain, we don't hate you. It's just that there is someone who is younger, faster, stronger, and better educated; someone who is speaking our language. We believe there is nothing wrong with paying taxes to support our great nation. We believe there is nothing wrong with the government putting our health and education first. We believe there is nothing wrong with those who have more, giving more. We believe that talk and debate and negotiation is good. We don't think it is right that we can allow our bullets to rip through flesh, and not allow our words to rip through bureaucracy.

Quoted, for emphasis.

Nice piece, James.

{"commentId":2264946,"threadId":"318522","contentId":"1687293","authorDomain":"vikibabbles"}

10 votes

#2 - Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:28 PM EDT

{"commentId":2265082,"authorDomain":"mentalshift"}

Thank you Viki.

{"commentId":2265082,"threadId":"318522","contentId":"1687293","authorDomain":"mentalshift"}

5 votes

#2.1 - Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:44 PM EDT

{"commentId":2265114,"authorDomain":"vikibabbles"}

You know, this really hit home for me because I was corralled into a "discussion" with a couple of customers at the restaurant where I work on the weekends. The husband informed me that he works hard for his money, and he's pissed off that Obama is making him feel like he doesn't.

Say whaa?

I wish I'd had that bit I quoted above to spit out at him and his wife. But instead, I was tired after a shift, and wanted to go home, and just said, "It's really not worth my time, while I'm still working, to get into this with you," after which the wife threw up her hands and said, "See? I told you! They never have anything to back it up." [she wanted me to explain why I wanted to vote for Obama]

And I wanted to tell her about the fact that I work several jobs to make ends meet, even though I probably could suck off the family teat if I felt like it, but I don't. And that my father has worked very hard and I certainly don't want estate taxes raised, but that I do feel obligated to work for a living and to share what I do have with others who don't.

{"commentId":2265114,"threadId":"318522","contentId":"1687293","authorDomain":"vikibabbles"}

9 votes

#2.2 - Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:50 PM EDT

{"commentId":2265148,"authorDomain":"mentalshift"}

An illustration of the unfortunate need for talking points. I am glad my words resonated; hopefully they will prove useful in the future.

Hang in there, "silly season" is almost over. :)

{"commentId":2265148,"threadId":"318522","contentId":"1687293","authorDomain":"mentalshift"}

6 votes

#2.3 - Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:54 PM EDT

{"commentId":2265308,"authorDomain":"vikibabbles"}

It might be almost over, but it's also just barely begun.

{"commentId":2265308,"threadId":"318522","contentId":"1687293","authorDomain":"vikibabbles"}

4 votes

#2.4 - Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:15 PM EDT

{"commentId":2266143,"authorDomain":"JoulesBeef"}

JoulesBeef

when I start talking to mccaqin supporters it is readily apparent they don't know anything about current events, mccains advisors, or anythign besides obama is going to raise my taxes, obama is black, and are you sure he isnt a one of them muslims.
They really dotn care if I totally pwn their arguements, they wil end up voting for mccain when the day is done as they really don't give a crap about this country enough to find out what is going on.
This war will be won by the indpendants and our youths.. but most of the sheep have made up their mind the second the saw the letter after the name.

{"commentId":2266143,"threadId":"318522","contentId":"1687293","authorDomain":"JoulesBeef"}

7 votes

#2.5 - Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:24 AM EDT

{"commentId":2270817,"authorDomain":"arndt"}

when I start talking to mccaqin supporters it is readily apparent they don't know anything about current events, mccains advisors, or anythign besides obama is going to raise my taxes, obama is black, and are you sure he isnt a one of them muslims. They really dotn care if I totally pwn their arguements, they wil end up voting for mccain when the day is done as they really don't give a crap about this country enough to find out what is going on. This war will be won by the indpendants and our youths.. but most of the sheep have made up their mind the second the saw the letter after the name.

You're logic, as well as the votes on your statement, baffles me :P

I am certainly not a McCain supporter, but you are essentially saying that McCain supporters are ignorant bigots who don't care about this country?

It is ignorant, blanket statements like that which make me discount your argument, and most likely future arguments completely.

It is also an example of the venomous, counter-productive attitude that dominates American politics and debate.

Thank you, for your contribution.

{"commentId":2270817,"threadId":"318522","contentId":"1687293","authorDomain":"arndt"}

1 vote

#2.6 - Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:30 PM EDT

{"commentId":2273928,"authorDomain":"mentalshift"}

arndt -

I was told by one Republican "we don't jump ship."

To me that says it isn't about what is best, but about supporting the party.

{"commentId":2273928,"threadId":"318522","contentId":"1687293","authorDomain":"mentalshift"}

3 votes

#2.7 - Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:44 PM EDT

{"commentId":2274040,"authorDomain":"arndt"}

That way of thinking is present in both parties, unfortunately. It has become a war of us vs. them, and a lot of the time, logic and reason are thrown out the window.

I have been on both sides. I went from a Republican household into a very liberal university and community. Years after, I realized that both sides were playing the same game, and the truth only depended on which news channel you followed. People weren't making decisions based on the context and content of the situation, but more on Party X did it, therefore it is evil, Party Y can do no wrong, etc.

Personally, I am pretty sure of my values, and I feel that I am educated and aware enough of the issues and candidates to cast my votes and judgments.

Yet, I know that I don't know everything (that's for sure), that I could very possibly be wrong, and so I try to keep an open mind, and listen to every point of view, analyze the arguments, and reassess my thoughts on the subject based on my morals and values.

However, I truly believe that blanket statements like the one above show ignorance and an absence of logic (or unwillingness to use it). This renders any chance of meaningful discussion impossible, and further fuels the hate and bitter feelings behind our political system.

Anyways, I got off topic again. Seems to be a real problem. Sorry to pollute your thread!

{"commentId":2274040,"threadId":"318522","contentId":"1687293","authorDomain":"arndt"}

2 votes

#2.8 - Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:03 PM EDT

{"commentId":2265215,"authorDomain":"ronk"}

ChrisRonk

Nice job James.

We need someone keeping tabs on all this stuff.

{"commentId":2265215,"threadId":"318522","contentId":"1687293","authorDomain":"ronk"}

5 votes

#3 - Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:01 PM EDT

{"commentId":2265620,"authorDomain":"GreyWolf"}

Very nice article, very well written and well documented; expresses my sentiments exactly.

{"commentId":2265620,"threadId":"318522","contentId":"1687293","authorDomain":"GreyWolf"}

7 votes

#4 - Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:06 PM EDT

{"commentId":2265654,"authorDomain":"vikibabbles"}

I almost hate it when someone writes something that totally encapsulates what I'd like to say, so much so that I don't have any real response, no?

Again, nice job, James.

{"commentId":2265654,"threadId":"318522","contentId":"1687293","authorDomain":"vikibabbles"}

5 votes

#4.1 - Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:13 PM EDT

{"commentId":2266546,"authorDomain":"vcubed"}

VCubed

I like what you wrote that you wish you had said, Viki, about how hard you work and how self-reliant you are, but you still want to help others less able or fortunate. Those are the things that make people think, and see that you're just like them, yet you came to a totally different conclusion. That kind of honest straight-ahead talk has helped me move more voters to our side than my always-ready lists of good policy points by Obama or flubs by McCain! Go figure.

{"commentId":2266546,"threadId":"318522","contentId":"1687293","authorDomain":"vcubed"}

4 votes

#4.2 - Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:54 AM EDT

{"commentId":2267404,"authorDomain":"vikibabbles"}

Good point, VCubed. Thanks.

{"commentId":2267404,"threadId":"318522","contentId":"1687293","authorDomain":"vikibabbles"}

3 votes

#4.3 - Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:18 AM EDT

{"commentId":2266484,"authorDomain":"darkknightjrk"}

Jared Kardos

I'm still a bit leery about Obama (I'm pretty much leery of anyone who wants that position), but it's very obvious that even if Obama cannot keep all the promises he's made--he's clearly not as much of a nutter as McCain.

{"commentId":2266484,"threadId":"318522","contentId":"1687293","authorDomain":"darkknightjrk"}

3 votes

#5 - Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:36 AM EDT

{"commentId":2266523,"authorDomain":"vcubed"}

VCubed

Thanks, I needed that. Been a long day, voter registration at a community college, recruiting volunteers, coordinating more volunteers for 20 hours of voter registration this weekend at a local festival that pulls thousands from the area, plus a Camp Obama in 3 weeks to train new leaders, and fundraising to help volunteers carpool to a battleground neighbor state.

An excellent article worth the read as I unwind for Round Whatever. Only determination will overcome the 55% who think Obama is a risk, and though these articles help for those who choose to read them, and provide us with talking points, we have to do just that - talk face-to-face when possible, by phone when not.

Practice makes perfect, and it is so worth it! The discomfort we first feel washes away when people actually engage. And, Yes We Can move even low-information voters to our side!

We are taking absolutely nothing for granted. We're always glad to train new volunteers - we have over a million so far! Every little and big thing we've done has led to this - and will get Obama in the White House this November.

We are the change we've been waiting for!

{"commentId":2266523,"threadId":"318522","contentId":"1687293","authorDomain":"vcubed"}

2 votes

#6 - Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:48 AM EDT

{"commentId":2266603,"authorDomain":"thelukesituation"}

The Luke Situation

I loved this article.

The wording, no matter who you support, is brilliant. Very well written, the best I've seen here on Newsvine (not saying much, as I'm an hour and 8 minutes into my third day here.)

Brilliant, and thank you.

{"commentId":2266603,"threadId":"318522","contentId":"1687293","authorDomain":"thelukesituation"}

5 votes

#7 - Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:08 AM EDT

{"commentId":2266871,"authorDomain":"djehuty"}

Djehuty

I agree with every single thing you say, James, and I enjoyed the article, but I think this will be the test:

someone who is speaking our language.

because the media manipulates language. They only deal in soundbites which suit their agenda, and this makes intelligent discussion of issues nearly impossible, plus it changes the expectations of the public from policy to "Arnie-style-tough-guy-one-liner". All of which means if this hasn't corrupted politics irredeemably then you're right. If Joe public can't see past the Fox-ization of political discourse, then we could both be badly disappointed.

Oh and I don't really think the MSM is "in the tank". I think they're divided between their thinking caring souls and their owners and editors demands for the agenda. We'll see.

{"commentId":2266871,"threadId":"318522","contentId":"1687293","authorDomain":"djehuty"}

6 votes

#8 - Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:11 AM EDT

{"commentId":2267241,"authorDomain":"mentalshift"}

If Joe public can't see past the Fox-ization of political discourse, then we could both be badly disappointed.

You are correct there. For now, I have to have faith that there is enough sense in this country to prevent us from repeating the GWB debacle.

Thanks for the interest.

{"commentId":2267241,"threadId":"318522","contentId":"1687293","authorDomain":"mentalshift"}

4 votes

#8.1 - Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:39 AM EDT

{"commentId":2267250,"authorDomain":"mentalshift"}

Thanks again Viki, and thanks Grey, VCubed, Wooblah, and Chris for the interest and the nice words.

{"commentId":2267250,"threadId":"318522","contentId":"1687293","authorDomain":"mentalshift"}

3 votes

#9 - Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:41 AM EDT

{"commentId":2271426,"authorDomain":"GreyWolf"}

James,

My sincerest apologies for polluting this thread by responding to the individuals below (who have never written even a single article for the Newsvine community.) Again, my apologies.

{"commentId":2271426,"threadId":"318522","contentId":"1687293","authorDomain":"GreyWolf"}

1 vote

#9.1 - Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:14 PM EDT

{"commentId":2272234,"authorDomain":"arndt"}

I'm sorry - didn't know that I had to first write an article in order to express my opinions on Newsvine.

I would love to write one, don't get me wrong. I just don't have enough confidence in my writing skills, vocabulary, or grammar. I also find it difficult to express myself thoroughly in writing.

Regardless, thank you for making me feel welcome.

{"commentId":2272234,"threadId":"318522","contentId":"1687293","authorDomain":"arndt"}

2 votes

#9.2 - Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:22 PM EDT

{"commentId":2272758,"authorDomain":"GreyWolf"}

In my above apology to James I referred to authoring articles because I believe we were way off topic in our comments below, and I know the author of a piece is often torn on whether to delete off-topic comments, or publicly scold such individuals, or contact them privately by email and ask that they refrain, contact the website staff, etc, etc, and I was just implying that you may have never been in that circumstance and may not be aware of what a nuisance we are being.

No, you aren't required to write articles to comment.
I think you are expressing yourself fine.
Regardless of anything else I say, welcome to Newsvine.

{"commentId":2272758,"threadId":"318522","contentId":"1687293","authorDomain":"GreyWolf"}

2 votes

#9.3 - Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:09 PM EDT

{"commentId":2267844,"authorDomain":"gregory-r-pitts"}

nerub

"We believe there is nothing wrong with those who have more, giving more. "

Thanks Robin Hood. These days, people don't "have" more, they work for it. Even if they are born into money, someone, maybe parents, had to work for it. If you want "more", get off your butt and work for it.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship.

The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage."

I would say we are between apathy and dependency right now. Too bad we have two awful candidates who will both continue down this path.

{"commentId":2267844,"threadId":"318522","contentId":"1687293","authorDomain":"gregory-r-pitts"}

1 vote

#10 - Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:28 AM EDT

{"commentId":2268723,"authorDomain":"GreyWolf"}

Nice quote, though its authenticity is debatable, and its veracity is debatable, and the stage and sequence is debatable, I would add that "who is dependent on whom" is debatable.

Is it I who is dependent on nerub's tax dollar (which I doubt since I receive no subsidies);

or is it GM that is dependent on nerub's tax dollar (because they have received, and may again receive a bailout and they require taxpayers to build roads for their products);

or is it Sallie Mae and Freddie Mac, and their CEO's who earn $10's of millions/year that is dependent on nerub's tax dollar (because they are in the process of receiving a bailout);

or is it ADM and the ethanol industry that is dependent on nerub's tax dollar (because they receive subsidies and profit from limiting competition through high tariffs on Brazilian ethanol);

or is it the for-profit publicly-traded utilities, who must upgrade the power grid to support electric cars, that are dependent on nerub's tax dollar (because they receive subsidies and massive tax breaks);

or is it the for-profit oil companies that are dependent on nerub's tax dollar, or the for-profit military-industrial corporations, or the state of SC (whose largest employer is the military), or is it the for-profit prison-industrial corporations, or any of the thousands of other corporations and government entities that are dependent on nerub's tax dollar.

If I were no longer taxed and had to forgo all of the non-existent government benefits I don't receive anyway, it would please me.

If I were no longer taxed and all of the corporations and government entities and their highly-paid CEO's that depend on government benefits ceased to receive nerub's tax dollar, they would be crippled.

Again, who is dependent on whom?

To me, it is obviously the wealthy corporations and the bloated government agencies that are dependent on mine and nerub's tax dollar, not I who am dependent on nerub's tax dollar, yet for some reason those corporations and government agencies exert a great deal of effort convincing nerub that it is I who require his tax dollar, perhaps so that nerub will not contemplate the inverse...

{"commentId":2268723,"threadId":"318522","contentId":"1687293","authorDomain":"GreyWolf"}

1 vote

#10.1 - Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:17 AM EDT

{"commentId":2270375,"authorDomain":"arndt"}

.......
.......
or is it GM that is dependent on nerub's tax dollar (because they have received, and may again receive a bailout and they require taxpayers to build roads for their products);

or is it Sallie Mae and Freddie Mac, and their CEO's who earn $10's of millions/year that is dependent on nerub's tax dollar (because they are in the process of receiving a bailout);

or is it ADM and the ethanol industry that is dependent on nerub's tax dollar (because they receive subsidies and profit from limiting competition through high tariffs on Brazilian ethanol);

etc., etc.

I know I am stepping into the lion's den, but here goes...

Yup - corporation's and 'the rich' are evil. Gather the pitchforks, round up the mob!! Of course, we as individuals carry no responsibility for this mess. Especially considering that we have been too busy watching American Idol and following Brangelina to give a @!$%# about the current state of our country, as well as holding our elected officials accountable for their votes and policies.

I get it - I am going to work hard for my money, and I'll get punished and demonized once (if) I do strike it 'rich'. Wow, sounds like fun! Or, I could just lay back, and be happy with my taco bell job, content that hard workers are going to help my pay for my health care, housing, child care, and food.

Well, I am fed up.

I am fed up paying sky-high health care costs because I make too much to qualify for my state's health plan. I resent the fact that my doctor charges me higher rates because I have health insurance.

I am pissed off that the best housing in my city (and the most affordable to our family) is off limits because I make too much.

I can't believe that larger and larger chunks of my paycheck are going to people who made poor choices, and will not have to deal with the consequences (instead I do - and no, that is not everyone, I know)

I resent standing in line at the supermarket, with barely enough food to feed our family, while someone with 5 kids in front of me buys steaks with their food stamps, then pulls out cash to pay for their cigarettes, alcohol, and lottery tickets.

Problem is, I barely make enough for our family to get by. We are living paycheck to paycheck. So yeah, please take more of my hard-earned money.

Gradually, we are taking away the incentive for people to go out and get educated, work hard, and strive for the 'american dream'. Now we are shifting to a 'survival of the weakest' mentality that honestly, will lead to the destruction of our society and species. Ever see the movie 'Idiocracy'? It is seriously happening.

Now, I agree that there is a definite problem with corporate/government corruption, lobbying, predatory lending, etc. Yet, the pointed finger of blame needs to be pointing towards us We sat back, ate nachos, and watched prime-time TV while our govt, time and time again, served themselves and their friends. We were ignorant of voting records, and were completely content being fed our daily spoonfuls of sound-bites. It has been proven that, as a politician, it isn't your actions that count, but instead what you say, and how well you can 'spin'.

Now I am libertarian, and most of you are progressive/socialist. I know that we will never see eye to eye. Problem is, we both want the same thing (for the most part), but disagree on how it should be structured/implemented. I had to vent anyways.

{"commentId":2270375,"threadId":"318522","contentId":"1687293","authorDomain":"arndt"}

1 vote

#10.2 - Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:54 PM EDT

{"commentId":2271106,"authorDomain":"GreyWolf"}

If you are a libertarian, it is really surprising that you completely missed my point (because it is a libertarian view I am advocating.)

I, Grey Wolf, have never received a penny of arndt's (or nerub's) tax money, whereas the CEO's of Fannie and Freddie (and Exxon and Haliburton and Raytheon and ADM...), who made around $10 million/year, have received arndt's (and nerub's) tax money, yet ya'll are way too busy spending your time blaming me to blame them, and by your silence (or often times by actively voting "conservative") you support, in the words of Larry Kudlow, "corporate socialism" -- you know, Republican wealth re-distribution, from the many to the few.

I can't believe that larger and larger chunks of my paycheck are going to people who made poor choices, ... such as the CEO's of GM and Fannie Mae.

Every second you spend blaming some insignificant person in the grocery store is another second you spend supporting corporate welfare.

And I'll repeat it, because this is my point:

Every second you spend blaming some insignificant person in the grocery store is another second you spend supporting corporate welfare.

{"commentId":2271106,"threadId":"318522","contentId":"1687293","authorDomain":"GreyWolf"}

#10.3 - Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:53 PM EDT

{"commentId":2271324,"authorDomain":"arndt"}

If you are a libertarian, it is really surprising that you completely missed my point (because it is a libertarian view I am advocating.)

Yeah, my bad. I guess I was a bit too quick on the trigger. I thought you were advocating for social welfare. Anyways, I would say that our taxes dollars are paying for both. I recently read that .20 of every dollar paid towards health insurance, goes to pay for the uninsured (..looking for a reference). That is 20% - certainly not a small amount.

Every second you spend blaming some insignificant person in the grocery store is another second you spend supporting corporate welfare.

I don't know how you make that connection. I have just as much of a problem with corporate welfare as I do with individuals gaming the system. The current round of corporate bailouts really upset me (not to mention the entire contents of the housing bill which just passed). I think that this country, whether it be individuals, corporations, or government, needs to be held accountable for its actions. My point is that the public needs to be the entity that holds them accountable. I guarantee that a politician will represent their constituents if their job truly depends on it.,

{"commentId":2271324,"threadId":"318522","contentId":"1687293","authorDomain":"arndt"}

1 vote

#10.4 - Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:07 PM EDT

{"commentId":2272669,"authorDomain":"GreyWolf"}

"I have just as much of a problem with corporate welfare as I do with individuals gaming the system."

Glad to hear that.

{"commentId":2272669,"threadId":"318522","contentId":"1687293","authorDomain":"GreyWolf"}

#10.5 - Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:01 PM EDT

{"commentId":2274063,"authorDomain":"mentalshift"}

arndt and Grey -

Thanks for your participation. I am not much for the old on/off topic thing unless it becomes truly disruptive. In this case I am happy to have inspired the discussion.

These days, people don't "have" more, they work for it. Even if they are born into money, someone, maybe parents, had to work for it. If you want "more", get off your butt and work for it.

My take is that you are raising a point that isn't at issue. Everyone who has anything has to exert some effort to get it. Are you saying the sweat of a bus driver is less valuable than the sweat of a Senator?

The point I think you are missing is that it takes all members of a society for that society to function. A corporation can't make money without the bus driver driving its employees to work. Without the health care worker it would be much more difficult for the CEO to have his third bypass.

As a society functions more efficiently, its members become more wealthy, regardless of the absolute number of dollars that anyone has.

I think that is the point many McCain supporters (Republicans) miss. You can be better off even if your taxes are higher. The true issue is government priorities and fiscal responsibility.

Constant cries of 'less government!' do nothing for the state of our nation. Until someone takes the reigns with good intentions, integrity, and foresight, less government simply means less cohesion.

Rampant deregulation of industries critical to the existence of a nation, like airlines, utilities, and telecoms, leads to less cohesion. Less cohesion means that we are more susceptible to disaster.

That is the real danger to a 'permanent' form of government.

{"commentId":2274063,"threadId":"318522","contentId":"1687293","authorDomain":"mentalshift"}

3 votes

#10.6 - Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:06 PM EDT

{"commentId":2269144,"authorDomain":"pmags"}

magz

Wow. A Dear John letter.
Ouch!

{"commentId":2269144,"threadId":"318522","contentId":"1687293","authorDomain":"pmags"}

1 vote

#11 - Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:01 PM EDT

{"commentId":2273944,"authorDomain":"mentalshift"}